From 2023-04-24-CU-Tankokai-20th
From Suzuki Soukei Sensei
On ranking:
- Oo-meibutsu > meibutsu > chuko-meibutsu > other denraimono > non-denraimono.
- Fuzzy, but he seemed to suggest that you don’t ask about the denrai for actual meibutsu.
- For example, the Honnoji Bunrin does not need an explanation of its denrai, because knowing what it is is sufficient to tell you everything about it (it’s all on record).
When to use which type:
- Shin no Gyo
- Oo-meibutsu
- Gyo no Gyo
- Meibutsu or chuko-meibutsu.
- Items from the times of Rikyu (chuko-meibutsu), or items Rikyu selected.
- Karamono and Bondate
- Non-meibutsu denraimono
- Meibutsu is too much for these temae.
From Brian
- [?] TODO What exactly is the definition of chuko-meibutsu / meibutsu / oo-meibutsu? ➕ 2023-04-26
I’m fuzzy on the details here. It would be good to follow up.
- Meibutsu, generally speaking, is dougu that was written down in some collection as being dougu of merit.
- Meibutsu:
- Rikyu had a list of dougu of merit. If it’s on this list, it’s meibutsu.
- Chuko-meibutsu:
- Chuko literally means “revival.” Oribe and Enshu both also had lists. Dougu on those lists qualify under this category.
- Oo-meibutsu:
- Can’t remember. Is this pre-Rikyu?
Brian’s thoughts on karamono as a concept:
- Karamono does not need to have come from China.
- It’s thought that there are a number of Chinese craftspeople who came to Japan and produced pieces from inside Japan, those pieces being karamono.
- Separately, karamono is more of a ranking than a declaration of provenance. Extremely old ko-seto dougu are not just “karamono-level”. They can actually be considered karamono themselves.